Ancestor Surfing Genealogy and Family History

Ancestor Surfing

This is not only one man, this is the father of those who shall be fathers in their turns.
In him the start of populous states and rich republics,
Of him countless immortal lives with countless embodiments and enjoyments.
How do you know who shall come from the offspring of his offspring through the centuries?
(Who might you find you have come from yourself, if you could trace back through the centuries)."
--Walt Whitman

Introduction

Following clues from pp. 83-87 of the Cary-Estes Genealogy Book and using Wikipedia and The Peerage.com , and then getting more details from Ancestry.com and My Ancestors and Relatives,  I was able to trace my family ancestry back more than 50 generations.

The crucial line was from Charles Fleming (1659-1717) to his father John (1627-1686) to his grandfather Alexander (1612-1668) to his great-grandfather John the Second Earl of Wigton (1589-1650) and his great-great-grandfather John First Earl of Wigton (1567-1619). That was clarified and confirmed by My Ancestors and Relatives : "The cited information was published by Copyright (c) 1987, June 1998, data as of 5 January 1998, held in Family History Library. The author/originator was The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." John the father of Charles and Alexander the grandfather of Charles were both born in Scotland and died in Virginia. (The Cary-Estes Genealogy had speculated that Charles was the son of John who was the son of Sir Thomas Fleming [instead of Alexander], a son of John the First Earl of Wigton, but only based on scattered references and family tradition.) 

The line from Lord John Fleming, First Earl of Wigton, and his wife Lilas Graham leads back to King James IV of Scotland (1473-1513) reigned 1488-1513. 

If you go to My Ancestors and Relatives and from the Name Index in the left column navigate to Fleming and then to John 1st Earl Wigton Fleming (b. 1567) and then click on Ancestor Pedigree Chart, you will see the image displayed below, with the ability to click on each of the names to see details about those individuals and navigate still further back through many different lines.  (Further discussion about the Fleming line, below).

With political marriages among the royal families of Europe, those lines lead to ancestors who were kings of England and France, Holy Roman Emperors, Emperors of the Byzantine Empire, princes of Kiev/Muscovy, and Viking chieftains. The ancestors include William the Conqueror, Charlemagne, King John (of Robin Hood and Magna Carta fame), King Alfred the Great,  King Robert the Bruce of Scotland ("Braveheart"), half a dozen saints, as well as the House of Este in Italy (by a very different route than family tradition -- by way of the Cary family, rather than the Estes family). Another ancestor is King Clovis of France, who the novel The Da Vinci Code claimed was a descendant of Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ :-), and whose great-grandfather, according to legend, was a sea-monster. 

(For details about the direct line from the Estes family in America to the House of Este in Renaissance Italy see http://www.seltzerbooks.com/gen/renaissance.html )

The most fascinating ancestor so far is Eleanor of Aquitaine (played by Katherine Hepburn in the movie The Lion in Winter), mother of King Richard I the Lion-hearted and King John I.  The movie didn't mention that before her son Richard went on the Crusade, she led an army of Crusaders, purportedly dressing up her ladies-in-waiting as Amazons. 

The longest line so far goes back 55 generations to Rome around 350 A.D., to an ancestor (Flavius Afrius Syagrius) who served as proconsul of Africa, prefect of Rome, and consul (in 382). According to Wikipedia: his is "the earliest known ancestor of any of the royal houses of Europe. For the proposed genealogical link, see descent of Elizabeth II from the Romans." (Queen Elizabeth's line, as listed there, is identical to ours for the first 33 generations, through King Edward III).

For many generations, both the father and mother are not only known, but also have entries in Wikipedia, which links to their parents.  And for nobles from Scotland and England when Wikipedia runs out of information, in many cases,  generations show up in The Peerage.com http://www.thepeerage.com

Keep in mind that, except in cases of people who are related to one another marrying each other, the number of your ancestors doubles with each generation.  That would mean that you could have as many as a quadrillion ancestors in 550 AD.  But there were only about two hundred million people alive at that time.  You might conclude that just about everybody alive today is descended from just about everybody who was alive back then.  But just a few hundred years ago, most people lived in rural areas, with little travel and little contact with people in other towns, much less other countries. It was common for a family to stay in the same small geographic area for many generations (except when driven away by catastrophe, such as war, plague, and famine).  That meant lots of inter-marriage, with everybody in a town being cousins to one another.  (From a biological viewpoint, war, plague, and famine may have been "necessary" to change/expand the gene pool and increase the likelihood that mankind would survive). In any case, very few people can trace their ancestry back four or five generations, much less 50. 

I have followed a few of the lines of descent as far back as I could trace.  But literally thousands of other lines are possible.  You can surf through those others by using the Wikipedia links in the following documents. At the very least, this should give you a new and personal appreciation for history. Making a break-through like that in tracing my ancestry on the Web reminded me of the experience of Paul Atreus ("Muad-Dib") in the novel "Dune." Thanks to the effects of the "spice" and of his special genes, he suddenly senses the presence both individually and collectively of all his ancestors back for thousands of years.

My mother, Helen Isabella Estes Seltzer, died Dec. 28, 2010, at the age of 90.  She had a life-long interest in family history. In her memory, I compiled profiles of powerful and strong-willed women among her ancestors, thinking those women might inspire her descendants. These brief biographies are grouped according the lines of descent, which are then shown, leading down to the present. See "Extraordinary Women".

The Abraham Effect: Be Careful, Be Proud -- the Future of the Human Race Depends on You

By doubling each generation, counting backwards, 1000 years ago, about 36 generations ago, you had nearly 69 billion ancestors (that's 2 to the power of 36).  At that time, there were only about 50 million people alive in Europe.  So along the way, there was lots of intermarriage, and, basically, everyone of European descent alive today is a cousin of everyone else, and probably in multiple ways. 
That means that there were people alive in Europe  a thousand years ago who were the ancestors of everyone of European descent who is alive today.  In fact, there were probably hundreds, no thousands, tens of thousands, even millions of people alive a thousand years ago who became the ancestors of everyone of European descent alive today. 

Let's flip that concept and take into account that people are much more mobile today than they were a thousand years ago.  Let's look ahead a thousand years.  In the year 3000, every human being alive on Earth (if the human race survives that long) will be a descendant of people who are alive today, and not just of one person alive today.  No, odds are they will be descendants of hundreds, thousands, even millions of people who are alive today.  In other words, if you are a parent or could become one, there's a reasonable chance that everyone alive a thousand years from now will have genes that passed through you.  That is an awesome responsibility.  Be careful. Be proud.  The future of the human race depends on you. 

"Four Queens"

Nancy Goldstone's book "Four Queens" gives a panoramic view of 13th century Europe, from the perspectives of four sisters whose marriages made them queens of France, England, Germany, and Sicily. Two of those queens, Eleanor, wife of King Henry III of England, and Marguerite, wife of King Louis IX of France (Saint Louis), were ancestors of mine. Details 

Highlights

The Shakespeare Collection (ancestors with connections to Shakespeare's plays):
King John of England
King Duncan I of Scotland who was murdered by Macbeth

King Malcolm III of Scotland who killed Macbeth

Joan of Kent, the mother of King Richard II

John of Gaunt, the father of King Henry IV, grandfather of King Henry V, and great-grandfather of King Henry VI


The Crusader Collection (ancestors who participated in the Crusades

William IX, the Troubador, Duke of Aquitaine, one of the leaders of the Crusade of 1101

·
Fulk V, King of Jerusalem

·
King Louis IX of France, Saint Louis

King Philip III the Bold of France

Isabella of Aragon, wife of King Philip III of France, accompanied him on the 8th Crusade, against Tunis

King Louis VII of France
King James I of Aragon, shipwreck halted his voyage to the Crusade of 1269
Ramon Berenguer IV, Count of Barcelona, second Crusade

Byzantine Emperor John II Komnenos

Eudes I of Burgundy, participant in Crusade of 1101

William V of Montpellier, participant in the First Crusade
·
James, Lord of Avesnes, Conde and Leuze, in the Third Crusade led a detachment of French, Flemish, and Frisian soldiers. Died in the Battle of Arsuf 1191.

Welf I, Duke of Bavaria, joined Crusade and died in Cyprus on return in 1101

·
Alain, a crusader in 1097

Alan fitzFlaad, killed on Crusde in Antioch after 1114

Alan fitz Walter, accompanied King Richard the Lionheart on the Third Crusade, patron of the Knights Templar

Alexander Stewart, accompanied King Louis IX of France on Crusade in 1248

Eleanor of Aquitaine (believe it or not -- a woman Crusader)

Emperor Baldwin I of Constantinople (1172-1205) also known as Baldwin VI Count of Hainault and Baldwin IX Count of Flanders. Iin the Fourth Crusade the Crusaders conquered Constantinople and made Baldwin emperor

Alexander Stewart, 4th High Steward of Scotland, said to have accompanied King Louis of France on the Crusade in 1248

Alan fitz Walter, 2nd High Steard of Scotland, accompanied Richard the Lionheart on the Third Crusade, patron of the Knights Templar

Emoulf of Hesdin, killed on crusade at Antioch c. 1100

Alain [Stewart], a crusader in 1097


The Dante Collection (ancestors mentioned in the Divine Comedy):

Hugh the Great, Duke of France

King Philip III the Bold of France


The Saint Collection (ancestors who were saints)

King Louis IX of France (Capet) "Saint Louis" of the Crusades (1214-1270),

Saint Margaret (1045-1093)

Saint Irene (AKA Piroska of Hungary) (1088 - 1134)

Saint Vladimir the Great, Prince of Kiev (c. 958 - July 15, 1015)

Saint Olga of Kiev (c. 890-July 11, 969

Matilda of Ringelheim.AKA Saint Matilda or Saint Mathilda)  (c. 895 – March 14, 968)

Saint Clotilde, wife of Clovis (475-545)

Saint Begga (615-693)
·
Saint Itta (d.652)

Saint Dode

Saint Arnulf of Metz (b. around 582)

Saint Leutwinus (660-772)

Saint Clodulf AKA Saint Cloud (605 - 696 or 697)

Kings of England (who were ancestors)

Wessex
Egbert, reigned 829-839 (= first king of England)

Ethelwulf, reigned 839-856

Alfred the Great, reigned 871-899

Harold II (c. 1022 - Oct. 14, 1066)

Normandy

William I "the Conqueror", reigned 1066-1087

Henry I "Beauclerc", reigned 1100-1135

·
Plantagenet

Henry II, reigned 1154-1189second line with same ancestorthird line with same ancestor

John I "Lackland" (of the Magna Carta), reigned 1199-1216second line with same ancestor

Henry III, reigned 1216-1272 two lines with same ancestor

Edward I "Longshanks", reigned 1272-1307; two line swith same ancestor

Edward II, reigned 1307-1327

Edward III, reigned 1327-1377


Kings of Scotland (who were ancestors)

·
Alpin

Kenneth I, reigned 834?-858, conqueror of the Picts, first king of the Scots

Constantine I, reigned 863-877

Donald II, reigned 889-900

Malcolm I, reigned 943-954

Kenneth II, reigned 971-995

Malcolm II, reigned 1005-1034

Dunkeld

Duncan I, reigned 1034-1040, killed by Macbeth

Malcom III, reigned 1058-1093, killed Macbeth

David I, reigned 1124-1153

·
Bruce

Robert I (the Bruce) , reigned 1306-1326

Stewart

Robert II, reigned 1371-1390

Robert III, reigned 1390-1406

James I, reigned 1406-1436

James II, reigned 1437-1460

James III, reigned 1451/1452-1488

James IV, reigned 1488-1513


Kings of Wales
Llywelyn the Great
Rhodri the Great


Kings of Dublin

Sigtrygg Silkbeard

Olaf or Amlaib Cuaran (c. 926? - 931)


Kings of France (who were ancestors)

Merovingian

Chlothar I

Clovis I

Chlideric I

Merovech
·
Carolingian

Charles Martel, reigned 686-741

Pepin the Short, reigned 714-768

Charlemagne d. 814

Louis the Pious (778-840)

Charles the Bald (823-877)

Capet

Robert II, reigned 996-1031

Henry I, reigned 1031-1060

Philip I, reigned 1060-1108

Louis VI, reigned 1108-1137

Louis VII, reigned 1137-1180

Philip II, reigned 1180-1223

Louis VIII, reigned 1223-1226

Louis IX, Saint Louis, reigned 1226-1270

Philip III, reigned 1270-1285


Kings of Aragon and Navarre (AKA Pamplona) and Counts of Barcelona (in Spain)

Garcia Jimenez of Pamplona

Sancho I of Pamplona

Garcia Sanchez I of Pamplona

Sancho II of Pamplona

Garcia Sanchez II of Pamplona

Sancho III Garces of Navarre

Ramiro I of Aragon

Sancho Ramirez of Aragon and Navarre

Ramiro II of Aragon

Ramon Berenguer IV, Count of Barcelona

Alfonso II of Aragon, reigned 1162-1196

Peter II of Aragon

James I of Aragon


Princes of Kiev

Mstislav I Vladimirovich the Great of Kiev (1076 - 1132)

Vladimir Monomakh (1053-1125)

Vsevolod I of Kiev (1030-1093)

Yaroslav I the Wise (978-1054)

Vladimir I the Great (958-1015)

Prince Igor, reigned 912-914 two lines with same ancestor

Prince Sviatoslav I (c. 942 - March 972)

Prince (Saint) Vladimir the Great (c. 958 - July 15, 1015)

Prince (Tsar) Yaroslav the Wise (c. 978 - Feb. 20, 1054


Kings of Denmark

King Christian I of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden, reigning 1448-1481

King Valdemar I of Denmark (1131-1182)

King Eric I of Denmark (c. 1060 - 1103)


Kings of Sweden

Olof Skotkonung (980? -  1021 or 1022?)

Eric the Victorious (945? - c. 995)


Holy Roman Emperors
·
Lothair III

Frederick I Barbarossa

Charles the Bald

Louis the Pious

Charlemagne


Byzantine Emperors

Emperor Baldwin I of Constantinople (1172-1205) also known as Baldwin VI Count of Hainault and Baldwin IX Count of Flanders. In the Fourth Crusade the Crusaders conquered Constantinople and made Baldwin emperor

John II Komnenos, reigned 1118-1143

Alexios I Komnenos, reighed 1081-1118

Constantine IX Monomachos, reigned 1042-1055)


The Norse Saga Collection [to come]

The Cities Collection

St. Louis, MO, named forKing Louis IX of France (Capet) "Saint Louis" of the Crusades (1214-1270)

St. Cloud, named for Saint Clodulf AKA Saint Cloud (605 - 696 or 697)


The Operas Collection

Tannhäuser by Wagner, Herman I, Landgrave of Thuringia

Lohengrin by Wagner, Henry the Fowler


The Movie Collection

·
The Lion in Winter (portraying King Henry I,Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine, and King John I of England)

Braveheart (portraying King Robert the Bruce of Scotland)

King Arthur (portraying Cerdic of Wessex (d. 534) and Cynric of Wessex, his son, who ruled as King of Wessex Cerdic was leader of the first group of West Saxons to come to England in 495. The move shows he and his son killed in battle by King Arthur and Sir Lancelot.

The Da Vinci Code (proposes the theory that Clovis, Merovingian king of France, was a direct descendant of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene) Wikipedia about the book The Da Vinci Code "Mary Magdalene was of royal descent (through the Jewish House of Benjamin) and was the wife of Jesus, of the House of David. That she was a prostitute was slander invented by the Church to obscure their true relationship. At the time of the Crucifixion, she was pregnant. After the Crucifixion, she fled to Gaul, where she was sheltered by the Jews of Marseille. She gave birth to a daughter, named Sarah. The bloodline of Jesus and Mary Magdalene became the Merovingian dynasty of France."

The files linked to below are Web pages detailing the ancestry.  

My starting point for numbering generations is Adela and Lila (my grandchildren).  If you are a relative of mine, check your generation number (I'm in generation 3).  Then you are a direct descendant of (have the genes of) everyone in these lists with a higher generation number than yours. 

Family lines. All have links to Wikipedia and thepeerage.com  I'm in the process of adding more lines. The number refers to the generation number in which this family first appears. The individual name is the mother in that generation whose ancestors we then follow.

11 Fleming, Susannah Tarleton Fleming also 21 Janet Douglas 26 generations back to 1250 in Scotland
15 Graham, Lilias Graham 24 generations back to 1400 in Scotland.

15 Livingston, Margaret Livingston, and 18 Douglas, Anne or Agnes Douglas, 25 generations back to 1300 in Scotland. Includes Kings James I and Robert III of Scotland

16 Drummond, Joan Drummond 32 generations to 1153 in Scotland

18 Fleming, Margaret Fleming 21 generations back to 1413 in Scotland

18 Stewart, Lady Janet Stewart 33 generations to 1097 in France  Includes the Stewart Dynasty of Kings of Scotland from Robert II to James IV (reigning 1371-1513)

18 Keith, Lady Janet Keith 19 generations back to Scotland

19 Gordon/Seton Eliza Gordon 22 generations back to 1439 in Scotland

20 Oldenburg, Margaret of Denmark 37 generations to 900 in Kiev, Denmark, and Sweden. Includes Kings of Scotland James III and James IV (Stewart) reigning 1460 to 1513, and also kings of Denmark, Sweden, and Kiev, plus a Byzantine Emperor, and a Holy Roman Emperor
20 Stewart, Annabella Stewart 32 generations back to 1097 in France. Includes the Stewart Dynasty of Kings of Scotland from Robert II to James I (reigning 1371-1437)
21 Hohenzollern,
 Dorothea of Brandenburg 30 generations back to 1139 in Germany. Includes Kings of Scotland James III and James IV (Stewart) reigning 1460 to 1513, and also King Christian I of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden, reigning 1448-1481

21 Plantagenet, Joan Beaufort 33 generations back to 1000 in France. Includes Kings of England from Henry II to Edward II, plus Fulk V, King of Jerusalem

22 Drummond
,Annabella Drummond 29 generations back to 1153 in Scotland. Includes King James I of Scotland (Stewart) (reigned 1424-1437)

22 Holland,
 Margaret Holland 27 generations back to 1283 in Scotland. Includes King James I of Scotland and King Edward I of England

24 Bruce, Marjorie Bruce 32 generations to 1142 in Scotland. Includes Stewart Dynasty of Kings of Scoltand from Robert II to James IV, reigning 1371-1513), plus King Robert I of Scotland (Bruce) reigning 1306-1329

·
24 Graham, Margaret de Graham 27 generations back to 1150 in Scotland. Includes King James I and King Robert III of Scotland (Stewart) (reigned 1424-1437)

·
24 Hainault, Phliippa of Hainault 30 generations back to 1100 in France. Includes King Edward III of England and a crusader from the Third Crusade.

·
24 Plantagenet, Joan of Kent 33 generations back to 1100 in France, includes Kings Henry II to Edward I of England; King James I of Scotland; and Fulk V King of Jerusalem
25 Valois/Capet
,
Jeanne of Valois 41 generations back to 800 in France. Includes Kings of France from Robert II to Philip III, reigned from 996 to 1285. Also includes Duke Hugh who appears in Dante's Divine Comedy.

26 Wake. Margaret Wake 44+ generations back to the 6th century in Wales. Includes Kings of Wales, including Llywelyn the Great  and Rhodri the Great

26 Capet. Marguerite of France 41 generations back to 800 in France. Includes Kings of France from Robert II to Philip III, reigned from 996 to 1285. Also includes Duke Hugh who appears in Dante's Divine Comedy.

27 Brabant, Maria of Brabant, 34 generations back to 1100 in Flanders. Includes King Edward I of England, King James I of Scotland, King Philip II of France

27 d'Aubigny,Maud d'Aubigny 31 generations back to 1071 in England. Includes King James I of Scotland (Stewart) reigned 1424-1437)
28 Dunkeld,
Isabella of Huntingdon 34 generations back to 975 in Scotland. Includes Stewart Kings of Scotland Robert II to James I, plus Bruce Dynasty King Robert I, plus Dunkeld Dynasty Kings Duncan I (murdered by Macbeth) and Malcolm III who killed Macbeth

28 Margaret II of Flanders. Includes King Edward III of Engalnd and Baldwin Emperor of Constantinople

29 Hohenstaufen, Marie of Hohenstaufen 34 generations back to about 1000 in Germany. Includes Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa, King Phlip II of France, King James I of Scotland, and King Edward I of England

30 Montpellier and Komnena, Marie of Montpellier, and 31 Komnenos, Eudokia Komnene, 35 generations back to 1100 in Montpellier, France, and 36 generations back to 1000 in Constantinople. Includes King Edward III of England, Kings Philip III and Robert II of France, Kings of Aragon and Navarre, and Byzantine Emperors John II and Alexios I Komnenos

30 Aquitaine, Eleanor of Aquitaine, 38 generations back to 820 in France. Includes Kings HenryII to Edward I of England

30 Normandy, Empress Matilda 47 generations back to about 650 in Sweden. Includes Kings Henry II to Edward I of England (Plantagenet); Kings William I the Conqueror and Henry I (Normandy); King James I of Scotland; and Viking kings of Norway and Sweden

31 Champagne, Marie de France (poet) and Baldwin Emperor
32 Flanders, Matilda of Flanders 40 generations back to about 900 in Flanders. Includes Kings of England Henry II to Edward I (Plantagenet), William I the Conqueror and Henry I (Normandy), King James I of Scotland, Holy Roman Emperor Charles the Bald; King Robert II of France

32 Este, Judith of Welf 39 generations back to about 900 in Italy. Includes Holy roman Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa, King Phlip III of France, King James I of Scotland, King Edward I of England, a Crusader, and the founder of the House of Este

34 Alpin, Bethoc of Scone59 generations back to about 500 in Scotland. Includes the above Scottish kings plus the Alpin Dynasty, Kings Malcolm II, Kenneth II, Malcolm I, Donald II, Constantine I, and Kenneth I (reigned 834-1034), plus all the way back to Fergus Mor mac Eirc,

35 Kiev, Anne of Kiev, 39 generations back to 900 in Kiev. Includes Kings of France from Henry I to Philip III, Princes of Kiev from Igor to Yaroslav

37 Sweden, Ingegerd Olofsdotter of Sweden, 39 generations back to 945 in Sweden, includes two kings of Sweden.

38 Wessex, Aelfthryth 53 generations back to about 500 in England. Includes Kings of England Henry II to Edward I (Plantagenet), William I the Conqueror and Henry I (Normandy), King James I of Scotland, King Robert II of France, Kings Egbert, Ethelwulf and Alfred the Great of England (Wessex)

40 Charlemagne, Judith of Flanders  55 generations back to about 350 in Rome. Includes Kings Henry II to Edward I of EnglandIncludes Kings of England Henry II to Edward I (Plantagenet), William I the Conqueror and Henry I (Normandy), King James I of Scotland, King Robert II of France, Holy Roman Emperors Charles the Bald, Louis the Pious, and Charlemagne; Charles Martel)
, and the legendary founder of Scotland from the 6th century
45 Emma of Alamannia, 51 generations back to 575 in Italy. Includes same kings as above

46 Treve, Rotrude of Treve (wife of Charles Martel) 48 generations back to about 600 in Germany. Includes Kings Henry II to Edward I of England; Kings William the conqueror and Henry I of England; Holy Roman Emperors Charles the Bald, Louis the Pious, and Chalremagne; Charles Martel; King James I of Scotland; King Robert II of France

49 Regintrude of Austrasia,56 generations back to 437 in France/Germany. Includes same kings as above, plus Clovis, King of the Franks.

48 Pepin, Saint Begga, 48 generations back to about 600 in Germany. Includes the above listed kings.

50 Merovingian, Bllithilde, 57 generations back to about 350 in Germany. Includes the above listed kings plus Frankish (Merovingian) Kings Clothar I, Clovis I, Childeric I, and Merovech, plus Richomeres commander of the armies of the Eastern Roman Empire and Roman consul in 388


Please let me know what you discover in your own ancestor surfing.  seltzer@seltzerbooks.com

Further discussion of the Fleming line:

The various sources disagree about who is the son of whom, but all agree on descent from John, Earl of Wigton.

According the Cary Estes Genealogy p.85 (with the footnote, "This genealogy from Judith to Lilias Graham was secured by Mr. E.S. Lewis, Genealogist, 1937"):

"Lillias Graham md. Lord John Fleming, Sixth Lord of Fleming of Biggar and Cumbernauld (created in 1606 Earl of Wigton; became Earl of Wigton through the death of his brother James who was Lord High Chancellor to Queen Mary), d. in April 1619 and was succeeded by his eldest son, John,. "Left three sons (see page 87) ("William and Mary Quarterly," Vol. XII, (1903) pages 45-6-7, by Lyong G. Tyler, gives the names of two sons, John and Charles).
"While his second son, Sir Thomas Fleming, is said to have emigrated to the Virginia and colony and became the progenitor of the Virginia branch of the family.  Mr. Brock states ('Richmond Standard,' Feb. 7, 1880) that he married Miss Tarleton and had Tarleton, John and Charles.  Mr. Brock's information it is believe, is derived from family tradition.  There is, nevertheless, no mention as far as I have been able to ascertain in the records of Virginia or any Sir Thomas Fleming.  The earliest person of the name was John Fleming, who I am inclined to believe was the emigrant." (Lyon G. Tyler)

The question is who is the son of John, Earl of Wigton.

What I currently have at ancestry.com derives from what appears on the chart shown above (based on data from the Church of the Latter Day Saints):

John Fleming (1589-1650) md. Margaret Livingston
Alexander Fleming (b. 1612) md. Elizabeth Anderson
John Fleming (1627-1686) md. Mary Fleming
Charles Fleming  (1659-1717) md. Susannah Tarleton
By that chronology, Alexander was just 15 when his son John was born.  Not impossible, but also not likely.

John 1589-1650 was born and died in Scotland.

Alexander and John 1627-1689 both were born in Scotland and died in Virginia.
By the dates, it seems more probable that Alexander  (v. 1612) and John (b. 1627) were brothers, than that they were father and son.
John the Earl may have had a son named Thomas and that son may have emigrated to Virginia.  But I don't think that is the direct line.

I found the Alexander line at http://familytrees.genopro.com/454373/Roelofs/default.htm?page=FLEMING-Jean-I919.htm That site is difficult to navigate, because it is based on a database, rather than using fixed URLs.  I use a screen shot from there on my page http://www.seltzerbooks.com/ancestorsurfing.html

The information at that site derives from "The cited information was published by Copyright (c) 1987, June 1998, data as of 5 January 1998, held in Family History Library The author/originator was The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
I now strongly suspect the line of descent is
John the Earl
John (b. 1589)
John (b. 1627)
Charles md. Susannah Tarleton
But I don't believe we can establish that with certainty.

In other words, Charles is the son of John Fleming (1627-1686) md. Mary Fleming (possibly a cousin?)

But we don't know for sure if John (b. 1627) was the son or grandson of John Fleming (1589-1650) md. Margaret Livingston
If grandson, then his father was Alexander Fleming (b. 1612) md. Elizabeth Anderson

NB -- John, Charles, William, and Thomas are names that recur frequently, from one generation to the next in the Virginia branch of the Fleming family.  By contrast, Alexander only appears once, which seems strange if he had surviving male off-spring.  The family also often used the mother's maiden name as a middle name, but Anderson does not appear as a middle name in any of the following generations.  (Alexander appears to have been named after Alexander Livingston, father of Margaret, who married John Fleming (b. 1589).)

It is possible that the Mary Fleming who married John (b. 1627) was his first cousin, a daughter of Alexander Fleming.  I see no evidence of that, but such a relationship would not have been  uncommon at the time and would explain the confusion.

In any case, John (b. 1589) was the son of John Fleming, First Earl of Wigton.

While I want to be as accurate as possible, there comes a point where you have to go with what is most plausble.


Cary-Estes Genealogy by May Folk Web and Patrick Mann Estes and Cary-Estes-Moore Genealogy by Helen Estes Seltzer


Please send feedback to: seltzer@seltzerbooks.com


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